Now, let's look at the same verses in both The Living Bible and the New Living Translation: "If God doesn't punish you when you need it, as other fathers punish their sons, then it means that you aren't really God's son at all that you don't really belong in his family. Since we respect our fathers here on earth, though they punish us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to God's training so that we can begin really to live?” (Hebrews 12:8-9, TLB) "If God doesn't discipline you as he does all of his children, it means that you are illegitimate and are not really his children after all. Since we respect our earthly fathers who disciplined us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to the discipline of our heavenly Father and live forever?” (Hebrews 12:8-9, NLT) Isn't that much clearer than the New King James version? Of course. The wording is now clearer and maybe we can grasp a little more of the meaning of these verses. To be a good Bible student we know that we shouldn't take things out of context. We first need to try to understand the subject of Hebrews 12. The main thrust of this chapter is learning to endure with faith as a Christian. The section that refers to God's chastening is from verses 5-24, including the verses that you asked about. Let's ask a question. What is uppermost in God's mind? In other words, what does He really want from humans? Obedience? Yes, that's one thing. But, what is the focus of God creating man? So that God could have a relationship with a created being who has free moral agency. God is most interested in having relationships with people. That's the one thing that people in this world have the hardest time with: relationships with one another. And that will be one thing that Jesus Christ will also focus on when He returns to set up His loving government on this earth in the not-too-distant future. So in order for a father to have an effective relationship with his son or daughter, he must first of all have lots of love for them, just as God the Father does for His children. At the same time, can any good father let his children do whatever they want? No, of course not. If he did, they would surely turn bad and maybe some day become a criminal. So that's where rules (commandments) come in. A good father lays down the rules of living and expects his children to learn to live by those rules, just as God expects His children to keep His commandments. Now we get to the verses you asked about. God expects us to keep His commandments. If we don't, we will have to pay a penalty of some kind. It could be a penalty based on man's laws, such as a speeding ticket, jail time, or even worse, capital punishment if the crime is serious enough. The penalty could also come directly from God, apart from man's laws. God may punish us because we are sinning about something and are making no effort to overcome a certain sin in our life. Then again, it may not be a serious sin, but rather that God knows what we need in the way of correction and shaping in our character. He then creates circumstances that will put us through some kind of test or trial to develop the part of our character that God sees that we are lacking in. God and Jesus Christ love us all very much and they know that in order for us to one day become part of their Family, that we need to be corrected and disciplined. If God doesn't chasten us, then we might as well be as illegitimate children, born out of wedlock, whose father is never around to teach them and correct them when necessary. Tests and trials are part and parcel of this human life. Chastening and correction are also part of the Christian life. For further study, you might want to look at one of the most inspiring stories in the entire Bible which shows how a man of God went through many extreme tests and trials. It is the well-known story of Joseph and you can find it in the 37th through 48th chapters of the Old Testament Book of Genesis. In spite of all the chastening that Joseph went through, God was with him and had a great plan and purpose for him, for it would be through him that God would save His people from starvation. You can also read about the trials and patience of Job in the book that bears his name. Like others in the Bible, the subject of tests, trials and chastening is a broad one. | 